I agree with Moon also. And I agree that pg. 56 is ok too. It is pg. 69 that is a little shaky, and pg. 324 DEFINITELY states that NIL and T are defined with DEFCONSTANT. OK, we all agree that it is an error to redefine built-in constants, whether or not we think of them as having been created by defconstant. The manual should be made consistent on this point. -- Scott